Curse

QuixotesGhost · Sep 02, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

....random thought...

Now that Natures Renewal has been nerfed I wonder how a Water Elementalist throwing down some signifigant snare action would be at keeping smite at bay. Throw in some Wards Against Foes... Plus all those hexes make good cover hexes for anything the mesmers on your team are trying to do...

Quote:

Pet Attack - Disrupting Lunge
Your animal companion attempts a Disrupting Lunge that deals +1-10 damage. If that attack strikes a foe using a skill that skill is interrupted and is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

There's gotta be something you can do with this skill. Only 5e with a 5 second recharge. I wonder how echo would go with this.

dansamy · Sep 02, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I'd like to swap out to Hydro/Geo, but the truth is decent shutdown/interrupt to emo smiting is so rare that my guild still keeps one (usually me) in the build. When people get better at shutting me down, I'll switch out for something else.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 02, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

One of the thing that need to be taken notice is... in short battle, you get caught unprepare... you are done... in long battle, where battle dragged longer... your chance of losing are still high. There are a few reason I believe this to be...

1. When you are prepared, by taking all those supportive spell to control that enchantment festival... you lost some damage output.
2. As for damage output, once they suceed in getting it in... it going to hurt you, while even if you disable their damage output for awhile, you can't kill them fast enough... because they are also just as prepared as you on taking damage. End to end... it is easier for their damage to get an effect on you.
3. Staying together won't do you any good, nor spread apart do you any good... you are caught from 2 sides of troubles. You need it just right... and that require time together.
4. The opponent team are almost always prepare that people will try to remove their enchantment, while you are not as prepared to take out their enchantment.

So... this mean you need a very very specific build to fight smite... while you meet a team with no smite, you are in alot of hurt.

Personally... I am starting to doubt heavy enchantment removal team... I think your best bet would be using things that heavily immobilize your opponent, while killing their monk just as normal (although they probably will beat you on HoH because HoH require you to be in the middle). Instead of rend enchantment, where you might take 120+ damage for them just lose some 15 sec recharge things...
Take shatter enchantment and copy it, make them take damage for having too many enchantments. Dececrate enchantment might be good, unfortunately it doesn't remove anything.
Spot things like reversal of fortune and disable them by ways of damage, not just disable.
Currently, these smiting require an off balance enchantment battle inside your build... and for a good team to win, you usually need a decent balance of enchantment, hex related skills... so by throwing your build off balance is already aiding to their victory.

There are probably quite a few guild who can do some more interesting things and win... but for those who are not yet able to do so, take a look at your build for a little check up... I can't really say what to check for, as that come by experience for each month... so good luck (or rather too many things, I just don't want to say...?? or maybe I just really don't know).

I think this below is the most important of all my rumbling:
What you really need to look for... is some way to output damage at the same time breaking their enchantment... not taking some damage while you break their enchantment. (well profane is a perfect example of saying, beat me up then I strip your enchantment... a bit late?)

ElderAtronach · Sep 02, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Letting the smiters keep their enchantments will make sure you die faster. Things like shatter and desecrate won't bother an E/Mo at all, they get so much health back from Ether Renewal they'll be laughing in your face. They cast through backfire no problem with Ether up. Rend is still needed if you want a chance in hell of countering them.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 02, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

yes, I know that they even cast thru backfire... which is actually quite disturbing...

another annoying part is that thinking of bal's aura... there are no hex version of it... I mean opposite version of it... it would take an AoE healing hex to do the opposite effect of bal aura and zealot fire...

and it was because those enchant removal make you pay for what they are doing is killing counter against it... dam... why rend had to pay that price? Like they have said it before... enchantment wtfhaxorl33tpwnj00... although I don't like or actually believe in it... but it is hard to deny it.

such such specific build is needed... everyone can agree on that.

Iere · Sep 02, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I'm really but a newbie, but Power Block seems as though it might be rather fun.

If you can get through the small cast times, that is.

Considering that it's built around smiting prayers, you've shut someone down for 13 seconds.

Admittedly, the recharge time is a problem, and it's hard to use against more than one E/Mo-- but isn't that what everyone's been saying? That you can shut down one, but when they flood you with E/Mos, it's a pain...

Phades · Sep 02, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

yes, I know that they even cast thru backfire... which is actually quite disturbing...

another annoying part is that thinking of bal's aura... there are no hex version of it... I mean opposite version of it... it would take an AoE healing hex to do the opposite effect of bal aura and zealot fire...

and it was because those enchant removal make you pay for what they are doing is killing counter against it... dam... why rend had to pay that price? Like they have said it before... enchantment wtfhaxorl33tpwnj00... although I don't like or actually believe in it... but it is hard to deny it.

such such specific build is needed... everyone can agree on that.

There is no direct parallel to the monk class as a design decision taken early on in the game it seems. Anet took the stance that everyone should be self sufficient, then combined it with the need for one job to overly excel in one area, yet not be hindered in offensive damage output. Granted, the offense is indirect, but the quantity delivered per attack combined with how some forms of it ignore defenses and strike multiple targets is a point that makes it out of line compared to the "damage dealing" classes. Then, in order to augment a party, allow for rapid recycling of skills in order to ensure the idea of support behind it and basically break the mechanics that were to keep it in line (enchantment removal). The problem is that nearly all of the monk enchantments follow that pattern making them largely pointless to try and stop with a direct counter, due to their passive nature. The idea that one protects many, yet not limit them to similar cycle as other defensive measures or limit the quantity active creates problems in more ways than one.

Ether renewal merely highlights this problem and is not the source of the problem. The same could be said for the previous version of nature's renewal highlighting the problem with enchantments in general, while creating another problem in trying to address it.

entropy · Sep 02, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I'm just thinking but how bout melandru's arrows and some rangers along with mesmers expecially some R/Me's. With all the enchants a miters rely on they are sure to have one at least. Then bring mesmers with power block as said above. You could try using powerblock in the middle of RoF and DC but they have to recast zealots sometime... And with R/Me's the rangers could carry arcane mimicry and then 1-2 carry melandru's arrows and 1-2 carry quickshot. Its 15 energy but you could then use energy tap not the elite one i know it sucks but right after have the rangers all team one or two people. Then as soon as the mesmers have power blocked 1-2 E/Mo smiters hopefully begin taking out the other targets. The mesmers could also bring arcane mimicry along with arcane echo for more than one power block... with 3 power blocks on atleast 2 mesmers i think it would be enough to shutdown atleast a few members of the team

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 02, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

hmm... I dont think arcane mimicry can copy non spell elites such as melandru or quickshot...

ElderAtronach · Sep 02, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Read the skill description again...

Thom · Sep 03, 2005, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I hate smite. Noob build...in that it is incredibly easy to run and a pain to counter. Best way to beat smite is to communicate and identify the threat early. In the end, smite is just AOE and therefore can be avoided through keeping good splits. I miss Nature's Renewal's eliteness, why didn't they find a way to keep the removal ability while being balanced.

At the moment there are 2 types of tombs teams: teams playing smite and teams with 2-4 mesmers or players ready to counter smite. Did I mention that I hate smite?

Brother Andicus · Sep 03, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Healing ball for the win? It has been decided above, that the teams with more E/mo's are hardest to deal with, but a 3 E/mo build have little to no enchant stripping. No enchant stripping makes lifebond a very good prot choice. Healing seed on the prot monk then gives a rapid heal to your whole party.

Other things not mentioned that will reduce dmg taken nicely are:

Greater Conflag/Winter/Mantra of Frost
Mantra of Flame

Using the first of these options combined with wards against harm and elements will effectivly cancel all dmg from zealots and warriors, and just leave you with BA to contend with(not an unmanageable proposition).

cookiehoarder · Sep 03, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

The easiet and most simple way to counter smite is diversion.

Thomasuwoo · Sep 03, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaGar

Just an idea... ppl seems to over look at Ranger/E... Again, this is just an idea. What if.... you focus your ranger more in pet for interrupted... I am not an expert... and i am considering doing this build with other inter.. skills within ranger... I am still a newbie.. and i would like some1 to give me pointer if this is an good idea. The skills are list below...

Predator's Pounce - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Predator's Pounce that deals +5-17 damage. If that attack hits your animal companion gains 5-41 health.

Charm Animal - Skill
Charm target animal. Once charmed, your animal companion will travel with you whenever you have Charm Animal equipped.

Bestial Pounce - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Beastial Pounce that deals +5-17 damage. If the attack strikes a foe who is casting a spell, that foe is knocked down.

Disrupting Lunge - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Disrupting Lunge that deals +1-10 damage. If that attack strikes a foe using a skill that skill is interrupted and is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Edge of Extinction - Nature Ritual
Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, whenever any creature dies, Edge of Extinction deals 14-43 damage to all nearby creatures of the same type. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.

Ferocious Strike - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Ferocious Strike that deals +13-25 damage. If that attack hits, you gain adrenaline and 3-9 energy.

I used to run the pet build in the tombs. Belive me when I say we've tried every pet combination we could think of. The biggest problem is lack of control on the pet. Once it starts attacking something unless it's dead or a compass legth away it won't stop. the trigger for it to start attacking is you landing a phsical blow. So if your pet kills/disengages from your target emo and you land a strike on ANYTHING else the pet now goes for it. Pet's are too unruly and unreliable to bring into the tombs if you don't plan on using their corpse, death or dmg satcked with curses/winnowing (If you get them on the right godamn target) to your advantage.

Our current build runs:
Distracting shot
Punishign Shot
Chilblains
Barbed trap
Strip Enchantment.
Rend Enchantment
Natures renewal
Power Drain
Leach signet
Signet of Humulity
Predatory Season
Concussion Shot
Sabage Slash
Dev hammer
Heavy Blow
Hamstring
Strom Chaser.
Choking Gas
Practiced stance
Diversion

You think all that would be enough for 3 smiters wouldn't you?
We only prevail on the 3 smiter teams 60% of the time in One Vs one tombs (GvG we don't have any problems.)
2 smiters it goes to 75%
1 smiter armound 85%
No smiters around 85% as well.

In the halla gainst the double smite gank? 10%
The only way we win is to let the otehr teams smite themselves to death whke leaving some of our team in reserve with our ghost.

We're still trying to perfect our anti smite and we'll keep on trying until
a) we find a build that can beat both smites and other forms of teams.
b) smiting gets nerfed and we can focus our counters elsewhere
c) we go insane.

it's looking more like c atm but I'm still praying for a to work.

Thomasuwoo · Sep 03, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

....random thought...

Now that Natures Renewal has been nerfed I wonder how a Water Elementalist throwing down some signifigant snare action would be at keeping smite at bay. Throw in some Wards Against Foes... Plus all those hexes make good cover hexes for anything the mesmers on your team are trying to do...

There's gotta be something you can do with this skill. Only 5e with a 5 second recharge. I wonder how echo would go with this.

Tried and tried, AS above. The damn pet won't stay focused long enough tog et the job done. Even with call of haste it's too slow to relibly get the e/mo's renewal (Even under zpehry when you spam it liek crazy) and he'll evetully change targets. Usually at the worst time. Pet's make great support but they are unruly and can't be relied apon.

Water snares are a good idea will give that a go.

Serpreme · Sep 03, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

too many elitist assholes in this forum XD its basically you posted it,they wanted too so now they are upset like little kids who got their toys taken away.